A: It’s much more difficult nowadays, and customers’ demands are extremely varied. The material costs are a great deal more expensive than when I started 13 years ago, and there are many more styles to choose from. It is easy to make mistakes. The work hours are long, and I often have to work till 11 or 12 at night.

C: On the creative side, customers always demand the latest stuff, and we have to follow current trends to satisfy their needs. Material costs have gone up due to the rise of the RMB. Many of our materials are made in China, so our costs have gone up, while our fees have remained the same. I do shopping mall decorations, and clients tend to have roughly the same budgets year after year.

D: We also do design and build. The costs for China-made doors, cabinets and carpentry have gone up by 10-20%. Sometimes I am only responsible for design. Then I can let my imagination run free and not have to worry about the costs.

B: I started working in this business in 1997. In this information age, clients have more access to design related news. Sometimes they would just bring a magazine and ask us to copy the design. They are also more demanding and exacting when it comes to accepting the finished products.

A: Sometimes when the results are not what the customer expected, they blame it on the designer, so our work has become harder.

C: I get help from graphic designers since my work also involve print ads, and the decorations that we do also involve graphic elements. Because our work is different, I have to communicate with them differently. I have just started my company, so I understand how employees feel, and won’t overwork them.

A: Sometimes we would have quarrels because of divergent viewpoints. Some of my employees have been in the business for over 10 years.

C: My employees are more inexperienced. If we have disagreements, I would ask them to prepare another option for clients to choose from.

B: I demand that employees have a sense of responsibility. Many would often take sick leave on Mondays.

C: Young designers are definitely better in terms of computer skills, and get better and better at it. In terms of design skills, they vary from person to person. It’s hard to generalize.

D: My employees are my old colleagues, so there are not too many problems. I haven’t really hired any new people, but I’ve heard that fresh grads tend to have their heads in the clouds and are not too practical, perhaps because they have not had much experience.

C: It should be the responsibility of the boss to lead them.

A: I prefer employing more experienced designers.

B: Probably Mainland China, but my main focus is on residential design, and we do design and build. In China we can only focus on design work, because if we do construction we have to be stationed there. Also, we cannot guarantee the quality of the workmanship. Even so, many people want to enter the Chinese market and take advantage of its myriad opportunities.

A: We work mainly with private residences, so we have not expanded into China.

B: The Hong Kong market is quite saturated and the competition is fierce, while the scale of projects is greater in China, and clients have bigger budgets. The advantage Hong Kong designers enjoy right now is their international perspective. In the future, we all have to rely on the China market.

C: The quality of Hong Kong design is certainly sufficient for the China market, and clients are satisfied with our work. At this stage Chinese clients are easy to deal with, and they trust Hong Kong designers, but this may be temporary.

D: They have so much money you can’t even imagine.

C: But you have to be careful about the legal aspects. I dare not venture into the China market. I am still negotiating some jobs, and have not undertaken any Chinese projects yet.

D: I work mainly in office and retail shop design, so I don’t have many Mainland clients. I have done design work for a few Chinese clients, but not a lot. At this time, I don’t think I can take on so much.

D: I worked with a client on his Hong Kong office. Then he went to Shanghai to open a branch office, and asked me to do the design and construction. I don’t know any contractors there, so I didn’t take the job. I have family in Hong Kong, so it wasn’t convenient for me to be stationed there.

A: I am worried about payment problems. About 10 years ago, before I started my own company, I had dealt with Chinese clients. A lot of times they want to take advantage of you, and are reluctant to fulfill their payment obligations even after the job is finished. Being in Hong Kong, it’s hard for us to go after them for payment.

A: It doesn’t work that way in China. They don’t care about the terms of contracts. You sign the piece of paper, but there is nowhere to go if you have complaints.

B: The same thing goes for Hong Kong. Sometimes after you’ve finished the work, the client doesn’t pay the final installment. Going to court costs too much money.

A: Things are easier to handle in Hong Kong. For example you can give the client something extra or offer better service, and eventually the client will pay up. But this is not possible in China. If you go to court, the payment won’t cover the costs.

B: The only way is to ask for a higher deposit so that at least you won’t lose money.

A: We usually arrange for payment in 3 installments. Sometimes clients would skip out on the third payment, but the construction has already begun, and we can’t stop.

C: Actually the most famous interior designers in Hong Kong, like Kenneth Ko, have gone to the Mainland. It has become a trend. However we are only a small company. We can’t afford even one bad deal.

D: Setting up a business in China requires capital and other related things.

A: You have to have connections.

B: You have to have connections doing business in Hong Kong too, but people here also look for results.

A: You have to pay bribes to get jobs in China.

C: The company I used to work for did business exclusively in China. It did show flats for Mainland developers, but it was only involved in design, not construction, and the company was based in Hong Kong. Not all companies can operate this way, because you need to have connections.

A: What other difficulties do you face when doing business in China?

B: Getting good contractors is important. I have some connections in Guangdong province, but I have difficulties finding contractors in Beijing or Shanghai. The workmanship standards are different and so are their work habits. For example, workmen in China are not that careful with their tools. But since I do not hire them directly, I don’t have much control over them.

B: Getting good contractors is important. I have some connections in Guangdong province, but I have difficulties finding contractors in Beijing or Shanghai. The workmanship standards are different and so are their work habits. For example, workmen in China are not that careful with their tools. But since I do not hire them directly, I don’t have much control over them.

D: Nothing special. We just follow the same procedures as in Hong Kong.

A: Their contracts are all standardized, and can be bought in a stationary shop. They would then attach certain details at the end. The clauses concerning payment are rather vague and don’t really protect us.

D: You could make up your own contract.

A: They don’t care. They just want to sign the standard contract of that province. I asked a lawyer to take a look at the contracts and he told me they don’t protect the Hong Kong side.

D: The contracts are similar to those in Hong Kong. I have had clients who wanted me to sign their custom-made contracts, because they are afraid that I would not complete the project. So far I have not experienced any contractual disputes.

A: If there were disputes, would there be organizations to assist us? In Hong Kong there are arbitrators, but in China they do not respect contracts.

B: I would definitely welcome that.

A: But look at the Consumer Council. They are not that effective.

D: If the client really wants to cheat you, no amount of protection can cover you, especially when you’re in another country where the legal systems are different. The organization can’t really help you.

A: We can offer quality guarantee. For example, we offer our clients a one year warranty.

A: The quality of practitioners varies across the board. We are often called upon to fix problems other designers left behind. For example we see shoddy workmanship in furniture, which we have to throw into the garbage and redo.

B: Sometimes clients decide they don’t want to use our services after we delivered the drawings, which we have to spend a lot of time to prepare on computer. Sometimes I would just do a few sketched by hand and communicate with clients to see if the design is to their liking.

D: Nowadays most graduates only know how to use the computer for drawings instead of sketching by hand. It’s not like the old days.

B: When I was in school I had to learn how to do hand drawing, which was considered a basic skill. Nowadays designers are expected to turn in three sets of computer drawings in a day. There is no time to practice hand drawing.

B: In some ways the status of interior designers have gone down. Many people now claim to be interior designers.

C: In the old days contractors say they work in construction. Now they all claim to be interior designers.

B: A lot of construction companies also claim to be interior design companies.

C: The HKIDA have advocated licensing or registration, which can help raise the status of interior designers. Lawyers and doctors have to have licenses to practice, and people would recognize that they are professionals. But how do we set the examination? How do you proof your own professionalism? For example you may be a contractor who has been in the business for 30 years. With licensure you can no longer call yourself an interior designer.

B: You can’t just look at academic qualifications alone. Many contractors are self taught, and possess a great deal of knowledge. You can’t prevent him from practicing just because he does not have the necessary academic qualifications.

C: It may not be fair to some people, because they do not have the necessary qualifications. That’s why you should be clear about the content of the examination and whether it is fair. Only then can I tell you whether I support it.

Q: So we should have reasonable assessment methods.

C: But if the standards are set too low, the system is meaningless.

D:  People’s abilities are different, so it’s hard to be completely fair. Some people have been in the industry for 10 or 20 years, and if you don’t let them practice it’s not fair either.

B: To a certain extent I am against registration, because it’s too hard to determine the criteria.

Q: Architecture also involves aesthetics.

D: When they put their signature to their drawings, architects take on legal responsibility. They have to have licenses to be able to sign.

B: Architecture involves building mechanics, and is not just about whether the building looks pretty. That’s why they have to have licensure.

D: If interior designers were to have licensure, it would cover load-bearing aspects and not just aesthetics. They have to take responsibility if, say, a cabinet falls down.

B: But clients hire us for our aesthetics sense. This is where our professionalism lies.

C: If we have licensure, consumers will choose licensed interior designers because they know these designers will take responsibility for their work, which gives clients a sense of assurance. If you want to raise the status of interior designers, you also have to take on greater responsibility.

C: I do, because right now I work in shopping malls with high volumes of human traffic. However, I do not have the authority to sign my own plans, and have to rely on Authorized Persons. If I were to sign, I would need to have knowledge related to structural engineering and undertake his job.

D: Right now the minor works contractors also need to take responsibility for their work. At the end of the day it’s all about finding someone to take the blame. However our projects are only worth around $300,000-400,000. Even if we had licenses, we would not earn that much more.

A: But perhaps you will have more varied clients, which would increase your income.

D: Will it mean that those without licenses will be unable to practice?

C: How do you determine who has the qualifications to get licenses? They have talked about this issue for many years, and the HKIDA has yet too set a standard. In the United States both licensed and unlicensed interior designers are allowed to practice, and there is not much difference.

Q: You are worried that you will have greater responsibilities, and are unsure of the standards for licensure.

A: Real estate agents are also licensed, but I don’t see their level of services improve as a result. And when there are conflicts it is harder to get resolution. You have to consider many things if you want to license interior designers. It’s not easy to decide whether it’s a good or bad thing.

B: For example, do you need people with structural mechanical knowledge to sign all interior design plans? If not, what is the use? You cannot stop people from exercising their creativity.

C: I heard that in some countries you must either have certain academic qualifications or industry experience.

B: If you only allow people with certain academic qualifications to become licensed, it just creates opportunities for some people to earn more money. Most of us have already taken some interior design courses. Why should we have to undergo examination?

A: Can experience compensate for experience?

B: Even if I don’t have academic qualifications I can still be the boss. It’s fine as long as my employees are licensed. Design is teamwork. Is it ok if one person in the team is licensed?

C: They can’t stop you from practicing if you don’t have a license. A license is only a means of professional recognition, a way to raise professional standards.

B: It is not the best way to achieve this. We don’t make any money on design and have to rely on construction. Even the government asks for firms to submit building plans for tenders. Many clients ask us to prepare different proposals for them to choose from. This is where our value lies, with design and not construction!

B: I don’t think there is anything wrong with that. Where you position yourself in the market depends on your ability. If you can’t perform, you will get cast aside.

Q: But we are talking about safety issues. If the industry remains unregulated, it will affect the entire industry. For example, there is a lot of stuff in the news about illegal structures. A professional interior designer will tell the client that it is illegal, whereas an unprofessional designer will just go ahead and do it.

A: I have dealt with similar situations. If you tell the client to follow the law, he would tell you off.

B: There ought to be laws that regulate companies but not individual designers. The company owner has the responsibility to find out whether a project is illegal.

Q: You don’t seem to be very enthusiastic about licensure.

C: That’s because the parties concerned did not tell us what the advantages and disadvantages are.

D: It’s like with the minor works control system. If I took the course I have the authority to sign the paperwork, but the contractor does not. If he runs into problems I have to take responsibility. Nowadays you have to be a registered contractor in order to undertake many kinds of works.

D: It is hard to set a standard for design. For example, should you make it mandatory to produce a certain number of construction plans?

B: It depends on whether this code covers design or construction.

Q: If the code concerns professional conduct, it relates to whether you are allowed or not allowed to do certain things. For example, whether you can take part in illegal construction.

B: For small companies, the construction work is done by contractors, which involves other non-interior design companies. For example, the safety of materials is the responsibility of other companies.

C: This has to do with the quality of the workmanship, and it’s hard to monitor contractors.

Q: So you are worried that a code of conduct may not meet industry needs and affect design quality.

C: I recently landed a job where the client wants to add an extra level in a factory for use as an office. The government has regulations against that sort of thing, but whether to follow it depends on the individual designer.

Q: One of the advantages of a code of conduct is that you can purchase professional indemnity insurance.

B: I have never heard of that.

C: We also have third party indemnity insurance.

D: In residential projects it is the responsibility of the owner to purchase such insurance.

C: The work hours are long in this industry.

B: It should not be limited to design related events. For example, as a business owner, I would be interested in business and management courses.

D: Would they take attendance record? Would there be examinations? Just because you went to classes does not mean you know the material. Some people just waste their time in class by playing with their phones.

Q: But this system ensures that your knowledge gets updated.

B: Most designers would do that on their own. If you don’t update yourself you won’t survive in the market. Also, would you have to pay to attend such courses?

D: A lot of people just fall asleep during classes.

D: Because it is required by law. If I didn’t take the course I would not have been able to undertake some jobs.

A: It depends on who your clients are. My clients are mostly housewives, so academic qualifications are not important. Rather, what is important is relationship with clients.

B: Clients don’t care about your academic qualifications. They care more about your communications and design skills.

B: As long as they have a diploma in design it’s ok. The other factors have to do with indivudual character.

D: Basic drawing and English speaking skills.

A: Being able to communicate with clients is more important.

C: It depends on what type of company it is and its client base. To me experience is more important. They don’t need to be degree holders.

B: Some have diploma or higher diploma. I have also hired Poly U graduates.

B: In the old days we only had interior design programs. Now IVE offer programs in exhibition and event exhibition and event, and graduates work in related companies. However experience is very important in this industry, and you are certain to encounter many things in the work place that you haven’t seen in school. So it doesn’t matter where you had graduated.

C: You can’t expect graduates to know everything.

B: What they learn in school is different perspectives and artistic sense, which is different from what they encounter in the work place. They can’t learn that in school, because every project is different in real life. However what they learn in school is good.

C: Schools should teach students how to think independently, and discover their own styles. That is more important.

C: You can’t force that upon people.

B: I had come across something like that in school, but I’m not sure what I learnt was correct.

C: I studied a course in communications in school, but I didn’t realize how important that is until I started working.

B: A lot still depends upon experience.

A: But it’d be better if you possess basic knowledge.

A: There already are related regulations in place. For example you have to keep work area fenced off.

D: Also access for the disabled. If a restaurant does not have that they will not give you a license to operate.

C: Our work has to be approved by Authorized Persons or structural engineers.

A: Such regulations increase our costs. For example we can’t do construction on weekends, which prolongs the construction period.

B: We studied fire escape routes and access for the disabled, and the government has guidelines for these things.

C: The government can do more to help us, such as providing financial assistance to small and medium sized business, cheaper rent, etc. It could also promote Hong Kong designers to other countries.

B: The membership fee, at more than $2000, is too high.

A: I don’t know what would be the benefit of joining.

C: You can participate in their competition.

B: You can enter their competition, and if you win, you will become more well-known. I am not interested in other things.

A: It’d be good if it can help is in contractual disputes, for example when the client refuses to pay the final installment, the association can step in.

B: If was able to do so, I am willing to pay.

C: If it was able to achieve something substantial, like getting a factory building from the government interior design industry use.

A: Perhaps it could start a compensation fund, like the travel industry to compensate companies that got cheated out of payments by clients.

B: I’m interested in going to seminars with famous artists or designers.